Editor's Note: The following is a transcript of the "Get Some Help" program conducted at IAMC's San Diego Professional Forum. The Get Some Help format utilizes a moderator, Rick Little, Weyerhaeuser's director of real estate, who poses questions in rapid-fire fashion to an audience that is seated in a horseshoe pattern closely surrounding the moderator. The questions have been gathered from Active members within the previous 30 days. Answers are given out loud from the audience. After 2-3 answers, the moderator moves on to the next question. San Diego is the third consecutive Professional Forum at which Get Some Help has been conducted. Note: The copy below is edited extemporaneous speech. It is not intended to read like an article that has been researched, planned, outlined and written from scratch.

Jim Petsche, Nike, Inc.: Do some kind of mold investigation before you lease the premises. Then, what do you do once it is discovered?

Rick Little: On Jim's point, we had an issue at our corporate campus, where we put new floor mats down over carpet. They didn't have any ability to breathe, and suddenly we had a total moisture barrier. We created our own mold problem. It became a major issue. I see your point.

Unidentified respondent: We need a landlord's prospective here. If you are the tenant, your view is that the building is dilapidated due to the landlord's failure, and moisture collects. From a landlord's prospective, it is something that you negotiate up front in the lease. The key is that at the commencement of the lease it must be established that there is no mold in the building. At that point, it becomes the tenant's responsibility. But as a tenant, everybody needs to do the due diligence and the things associated with it to determine if, or if not, there is mold in the building. [You need a] full understanding of the concept and what is considered to be dangerous and what is not considered to be dangerous. I will let you know that State Farm [Insurance Company] could not tell me and could not determine what was and what was not dangerous. But we did do pre-testing and certifying based on Law Engineering or MacTec that did this survey for us. Test it first, and make it part of the lease agreement. And if it is a triple-net lease, determine that it is not there and go forward.

Bleecker Totten, CBRE: I'm a lawyer. I think this must be evaluated state by state. I don't think there is a national law. Each state will tell how it is to shape up. Secondly, it depends on where and who your landlord is. In the Metropolitan New York area, if you find mold after the lease or after you sign and it is not covered in the lease, you [the tenant] are going to pay for it. You are not going to get the landlord to pay for it. In other areas, you may get the landlords to help you or cover you or work with you.

Make sure it is covered up front, and if you are in a triple-net lease be careful. My normal approach to answering these kinds of questions is to consider what is the worst-case scenario if it goes before a judge or a jury. I would worry that it could get before a court and what could they construe as the answer.

Actives, do this as a part of your due diligence process of testing before you get in. I'd welcome any kind of documentation or anything that you have. So shoot me an email. Also, are you primarily dealing with office settings? Any industrial?

Rick Little: How many people have had mold issues in their industrial facilities? How about office? [He asks for a show of hands.] [In response, he says:] "There is a lot going on."

Leonard Anderson, Kimberley-Clark: If you have a multi-tenant building with 20 tenants in it and the structural integrity of the building breaks down, even with triple net leases through the building, and you have a roof leaking that's getting water into the walls, how is that not the landlord's responsibility?

I think if it is very specific as to cause and what is causing it. The landlord has a responsibility for the roof and that kind of thing. If it is a latent issue and it is found and it is silent in the lease, it's just not covered and triple netted becomes pretty relevant. The other thing, just make sure you have got in your maintenance clause that you address mold to the extent that you can.

Rick Little: Who is familiar with and employs the cost-segregation method to depreciate tenant improvements? I think this relates to FASB requirements on tenant improvements and that sort of thing.

Unknown respondent: I have a friend at US Steel, Jim Davis, [who] has a method for segregation. It is as simple as specifying certain parts of a building that can be depreciated at a much faster rate than other parts. So he knows what all of these are when he goes into a building, inspects it, etc. and creates a cost segregation plan for each building. Jim Davis in New Jersey.

Unknown Respondent: I use that same accounting method in western New York for personal investments. The yield went from 14% by accelerating the depreciation up front. The twist comes when you are going to be exiting the building. You must use a different 1031 exchange schedule because things have not over 39-1/2 years changed on multiple depreciation schedules on the adjusted basis. So it is a little bit more complicated, but still well worth it. I recommend it.

Unknown Respondent: The IRS is requiring engineers to be involved with this. We have done a certain amount of this with our firm beyond the equipment phase all the way back to some of the utilities sources and writing up the switch gear. [We evaluate] how much that the equipment versus base building cost. Cost segregation has really gone upstream quite dramatically. And much more cost of the building is going to the lower depreciation than you might imagine. At least that has been our experience.

We did this on some warehouses. You can substitute your contractor for an engineer as long as the contractor will break it out for you. And we went even to the point where individual truck doors versus individual personnel doors were separated out, and the concrete and the parking lot from the asphalt and the roof structure depending upon what kind of roof you need. I was like a lot of folks thinking that the old went away years ago. I thought there would be one or two things. But we just took the building apart at the urging of a CPA and took it apart pieced by piece. And you were talking about your yield increase, it was astronomical. We were dumbfounded.

Rick Little: I guess I would like to ask if there are others that are intrigued by this, as I am, from a cost standpoint? Maybe we can get some information or written material. A show of hands indicates significant interest.

Rick Little: How many people measure facility occupancy cost of their industrial real estate throughout the whole portfolio? Just end users.

Unknown respondent: We do that. Yes, in a convoluted sense. We refer to it in our company as a conversion cost. And it has several elements one of which is real estate oriented. It ties back to real estate.

Rick Little: The second part of that question is, if you it, is it on a cost per square foot basis? Cost per occupant. Cost per million dollar, that sort of thing.

It appears no one in the end user game is doing that on their industrial property

Geoff Mayer, Seagate Technology: It seems to me that a lot of people are familiar with CoreNet, and came over from Corenet. One of the things I continually benchmark is operating costs per square foot and cost per employee. [But] industrial users clearly have different benchmarks than CoreNet focuses on. That's my perspective.

Rick Little: Are there any pharmaceutical company reps here? Have any of the end users tendered a global partnering agreement, and if so briefly describe the scope of the service you were looking for, how you rate the responses, how often you tender partnering agreements and what lessons were learned. No responses.

Does anyone plan on doing this in the next five years? No responses.

Rick Little: Are there any companies using JD Edwards' real estate module, and if so how do you rate it? Was it difficult to implement?

No.

Rick Little: How are companies dealing with brownfields and their environmental issues? How many end- users are looking at brownfield conversions at their closed plant sites or warehouses. How many have been through the entire process and redeveloped? Comments, lessons learned?

Unknown respondent: In our specific case we took a site we purchased knowing full well it was environmentally impaired and we used brownfield tax credits to help redevelop it. The biggest hurdle we faced was what we were proposing to the agency was not the normal course of action. The focus in Missouri was remediation being asphalt caps and that nature. What we did was dramatically different from that. The biggest hurdle we had to get over was convincing the economic development agency that what we proposed was within the purview of the brownfield tax credits. What we were able to do was make real alliances with the Missouri resources who in fact said yes this is really a viable alternative that fits within the scope of the law. Once we got buy off, the department of economic development fell into place, but we had to build those alliances with DER before the department of economic development would really consider what we were doing.

Charles McSwain, CSX: Quick examples. We have been in this business for 20 years. We had a phosphate loading terminal on these ships that happened to be adjacent to class 4 pristine waters of the state, and it was barrier islands, and we redeveloped it. We went to the state and asked for their cooperation. We got state funding to help clean it up, and then we got to the point where they said we will only clean it up to industrial standards. [This was a] barrier island, and the market was million dollar homes. If was very difficult to push them past that envelope to spend more money, theirs and ours, [to clean] it to the right residential level. That right there became an issue because of the use chain. In another case, something that has come recently we bought property in New Jersey on Pawney Peninsula Passaic. We bought this and did a baseline on it. And it was dirty, but the whole peninsula is dirty, so we figured that is a common baseline. How bad can this be, even though we [were the] deep pockets in the neighborhood. It worked out just fine until last year when the state of New Jersey filed some kind of a broad suit against 65 major companies who have ever owned property along this river - kind of a state-versus-whoever ever owned it. Filing for pollution of the river now we are in this nasty lawsuit, which I don't ever expect to end. So much for brownfields in New Jersey.

Mark Delph, Fortune Brands: One of the lessons we learned. One of the facilities we sold was an 80 year old facility that went to a hospital so that standards for cleanup were at residential levels. But the key to the success of that one project was to get an agreement ahead of time between us, the seller, the buyer, which was a hospital and the state of the level of cleanup and the remedy how the cleanup would take place. It allowed us to control the cost while anticipating the cost before the sale went through. So once all the cleanup levels and remedy were agreed upon by all three parties, it made the transition much smoother.

Charlie Smith, Weyerhaeuser: We had a sawmill site for over 100 years and had been creosoting in the 20th century. We closed it. The city wanted it to go to residential use. We fully expected we would have to do the cleanup ourselves, because we didn't think we would get a decent offer on selling it in a brownfield state. We put it on the market. The true brown field developers were bottom feeding, but one of the local real estate developers came in with an environmental consultant and a remediation contractor. They offered us way more than we thought we would ever get for it. The tricky thing was the contract making sure it was cleaned up. The contract was a massive document. We jointly hired environmental consultants. We had to approve the remediation plan; it had to be approved by the potential agency; the purchaser had to put up a letter of credit for the full costs of the cleanup. We insisted on environmental insurance for excess cost implications and for pollution liability issues, and that goes on for 15 years.

So we think we have it sorted out. We tied it pretty hard. The issue was one I had not expected which was risk management because some of this stuff was really deep, and we got into a bit. Where they were working on a plan, the city was adamant that they were not going to take ownership or be in the street any site that was risk managed. So we got into an issue where we were trying to tie down from the insurance and wanted to do that early. But that meant paying a premium that got into them wanting to know what was planning purpose. This is the site purpose to buy the insurance because at some point you say the insurance just isn't worth it. We know everything and you can budget it so we finally had to nail one of the pieces. And developer wouldn't do anymore testing; they had to make their mind up.

Geoff Mayer, Seagate Technology: LEED certification sustainable design in green building operations - I've been tasked with actually putting out a policy or guidance document for our construction services group company. I'm just wondering if anyone has started that, and, if you have, how did you go about doing it.

LuAnn McHugh, SAP America: We are in the process of LEED certifying our headquarters building, and as it stands today the way it was built it would be silver certified. With a few modifications we can get gold certification. We are looking at building a new building, and the new building design will be a green building. We are more concerned with green building and creating environments and innovations and a good work place environment people can be energized feel comfortable. And it is really about engaging the employee in the environment and making him feel comfortable. And it also adds back to the community because if you are using your water runoff for irrigation instead of putting it back into the public sewer system there are many benefits to the community as a whole. It really helps on a local level, and is good PR for the company. And we are pursuing that in great detail. I'm also on a committee called Climate Resolve. It is part of the CEO Business Roundtable, a subcommittee of that, and they meet once a year. If you want more information on that, I can get that for you.

Leonard Anderson, Kimberly Clark: I know the basics of what a green building is. But could someone describe a little bit more to what that all entails?

LuAnn McHugh, SAP America: It is about using raw materials that are within a 500-mile radius of where they are produced to reduce green house gas emissions, using renewable resources (instead of using marble for floors use bamboo which is a quick renewable resource grows very quickly can be reused), using solar panels, putting irrigation tanks into the ground and using those tanks' water supply for irrigation, HVAC systems in the floor instead of the ceiling, its inexpensive more efficient individual control can control individual airflow of the cold and hot, using sunlight using daylight as a source for lighting instead of having the lights on all the time. In the east when the sun comes up, the lights are on; but as the sun moves the lights come on in that portion of the building, making daylight accessible to everyone, using waterless urinals in the men's room. It goes on and on. I have a lot of information about this if you would like more information I can talk about this in length give me a call.

John Patelski, Epstein: Go to www.usgbc.org, which is the United States Green Building Council. What it is there are different areas that it affects. Like LuAnn says, it is varies from gold to silver to platinum you can get it as big as you want. A good person to talk to about this is Sanford Smith at Toyota. He just finished his whole corporate headquarters from the get-go. The challenge you have to do though is to bring your team together and you have to have one lead certified company that does this. They have to be your architect your engineer so to do that there are certain rules that you have to follow, and it is fairly simple. But if they tear down a building, they reuse the concrete and asphalt and things like that, so it is a good thing.

Rick Little: Is anybody doing this at all with warehouse type operations? What I have seen is primarily good.

George Livingston, Realvest in Orlando: I'm also in the research foundation. We are about to let a contract to see how we can look at how warehouses can become LEED certified, and I'm guessing it is almost impossible. I tried it with one of my own; it just didn't work. So we are going back to the people that set the standards; maybe they will modify them for warehouses, but we should agree to let the contract next month.

Carl Bayer, Frito Lay: Frito Lay has taken some strong positions on LEED certification of buildings. We built a gold certified distribution center in Rochester, New York, last year. We are not going to build every new DC to gold standards, but we are going to build every new DC with some elements of LEED. And most of them will be silver certified. It is important to also remember that it is not only environmental standards, but it is also employee workplace friendliness, and so forth. You get added benefits through employee retention and on and on from the HR perspective, as well.

Unidentified respondent: One of the facts that is important to share is that just office buildings create 33% of the greenhouse gas emissions. As industry specialists, we have a duty in my opinion to help reduce those emissions by being smarter and being aware of how we are impacting the environment on a daily basis. And will we see the benefits now? No, but maybe our grandchildren will. One other thing we do in the warehouses that you can do is "green roofs." Green roofs add a lot of value to the building, lengthen the life of the roof and insulate the building as well. That is something that we are doing on office buildings. Target is doing it a lot of big stores; Wal-Mart is doing it, and it is something everyone should take a look at.

Charles McSwain, CSX: I ask the question that all of our companies need to have good corporate optics and social contributions in order for us to be healthy players in the current economy, but what is the cost dealt up on a green building versus a regular old low-bid building?

John Patelsky, Epstein: Our firm is a member of the US Green Building Council. I actually am a LEED accredited professional. I took the exam and there are a number of distribution centers in the country that are LEED certified and there are different ratings. I will tell you that the trend in industry is definitely going that way. It is migrating from the office to industrial environment. We are going to see a lot more of LEED. Maybe that could be a topic for one of the upcoming conferences as well, but that is a very often asked question about the costs premiums, and it does not cost that much to have a LEED certified building. Based on number of points that you will get, the cost starts to accumulate as you move from the certified level to the silver and the gold level and the platinum level and those ratings. I also think the values of these properties see a higher cost premium on a resale market or possibly in a lease environment for buildings that are marketed as LEED certified or LEED to a certain level compared to those that are not.

Jim Petsche, Nike: We just completed a certification within the last 30 days of one of our campus buildings. We got LEED certified one of the first 13 buildings in the US to go through the pilot program, and got the LEED-EB for existing buildings. We only did the one building because it took me almost 2 years to get it done. It was a lot longer process, but I can't say it cost us any more money. we built our entire campus to the same standards, so we could go through and get the entire campus LEED certified if we wanted to go through that process. I don't think it cost us any more money. We did all the programs through when we built the buildings. I said we will do any program from HCHC and any of the other things if it has a net simple pay back of 5 years, which is 20%. And we did all those things and that meant the LEED ratings; we got gold certified pretty readily. So I think these buildings don't really cost any more to do. It doesn't cost, it pays if you have a long- term view.

Melissa Bauer, Quad Graphics: We retrofitted 11 million sq ft of manufacturing space with lighting and got rid of metal halide lights about 3 years ago. The payback on the project was 2-1/2 years at most. If any of you want information on what we did with our lighting, email me. Again, I certainly entertain discussion about that.

Rick Little: Are you seeing substantial change of use in your markets? Obviously older, close-in industrial zoned properties are viewed by local governments and developers as higher value properties, some even condemned for economic development. How are you being innovative in combating this or preparing for this as you need to grow in those markets?

George Livingstone, Orlando: This is a substantial issue in central Florida. Residential land is going for roughly twice that of industrial land. It is being rezoned as fast as they can get away with it. Florida does have future land use as well as current land use. It is not a guarantee that we will do it, but it is pretty much. So what we have had to do is go to the periphery where it is still zoned industrial and there is not a high demand for high-density residential.

We currently have a distribution center in northern New Jersey that the owner is graciously allowing us to stay a couple of more years. But it will be changed into age-restrictive housing, because it is in a relatively residential market today.

Ted Onsbacker, San Francisco: I think the classic case of that is Inland Empire, where they just keep going further and further away from the Port of LA. In Oakland I can tell you that there is a 1,000 acre industrial park development that is in the entitlement process, just starting. It is in Barstow. It used to be that Ontario was the heart of the inland empire. Ontario has seen its last warehouse built; they are all office buildings. And the value of the land is just skyrocketing. You also have the political situation where the people in places like Ontario are saying "we don't want anymore trucks," and they are forcing the city fathers to react and say there will be no more warehouses built in this town. That is a classic case happening all over California. The other thing that has pushed this is the population explosion in some parts of the country, like California. There is a dramatic movement of rezoning industrial land into residential. And just an example, I'm working on a project where I have seen land that is currently in general plan for industrial, and the people who own it are doing their best to get it rezoned into residential because the land will jump in value from $100,000 an acre to $500,000 an acre.

Art Murray, LaVista Associates, Atlanta: We are seeing the same thing. In the last 5 years, what was once industrial land is now selling 300% to 600% higher and being rezoned residential. It is pushing our industrial development out about 60 miles. As you went through previous cycle, industrial would just move to the next exit on the interstate. Now it is making quantum leaps of 20, 30, 40 miles. The interesting thing is we are seeing it just not with the land per se. There is an area in Atlanta known as Chamblee. It is inside the perimeter. It has 4 million sq ft of industrial space, and within 5 years this will cease to exist. It will all be mid-rise residential. And it is not office, because the residential is also crowding out the office. We have residential developers who have cultivated followings with the industrial brokers who are specifically seeking out land in industrial parks and buying that land and rezoning it. I asked, "why do you do that?" And he said, "Because many of these industrial parks are very nice. We know what is there; it is predictable; we can snuggle in between 2 industrial buildings and be quite happy. We can sell those units all day long."

Charles McSwain, CSX: This is why this matters. Forgetting the RDCs, but the DCs for the LA market and the Atlanta market. What have you done today to impact on the highway system and the ability to move those trucks through that congestion, if you can't be central to the market you are trying to serve? Truck hours being what they are, you are all of a sudden 2 hours away from the center point of your market, and you are in traffic, and you can't get there. This is a huge problem.

Mike Jackson, Economic Development Director, Cape Coral, Florida: We are the largest city between Tampa and Miami. You are expressing a concern that is very dear to our hearts. My colleague from Florida indicated that Florida has a future land use designation program. And it might be interesting for you to know that in Lee County, Florida, the Board of Commissioners has issued a moratorium on this kind of conversion. In our city, we have an active effort to convert residential to commercial, and not just retail but industrial and office. So there are some parts of the world where we recognize the value of business, and we would like to make it welcomed.

Dave Spare, Fresno Economic Development: We are seeing raw land values of $40,000 an acre and residential values at $300,000 an acre for raw land. Up and down the valley from Henderson to Nevada is now $400,000 an acre. In general plan, industrial zones are looked at as a reserve for residential. Getting the cities to stay within a general plan even in California has been very difficult to do. We are partnering with the building industry the BIA. We are saying we want us to designate where you want the industrial parks and where do you want the residential growth and then we want you to bring the infrastructure and the type of residential mix up to the industrial. So I have infrastructure curb side and it lowers my cost to bring the infrastructure in. I'm tired of fighting you because you win every time, so we are going to partner on a 1,600 acre park and a 300 acre industrial park, and we are trying to find an area to do a rail park. We are trying to have the old Combarri Winery with B & SF because the rail users were pushed out of the area and can't service the market. So the solution is you are just going to have to look for those partnerships and try and develop on the land use to see where you can find value. Otherwise, cheap land is going to go and accelerate for housing, retail or office.

Jim Thir, Poland Development Commission: We have the same problem. We have one site in our community called Lincoln that is bounded on both the north and south sides by big fuel tank farms. The local community wants to turn it into a new Starbucks village. You can't get there without going through a big rail spur. If you lived there you might not get out for an hour and a half or so in the morning. The noise from the trains coupling is deafening; it sounds like Beruit or Iraq. At any rate, one of the things we are having to deal with is going in from a government standpoint and declaring industrial preserves. We do that as a conscious policy in order to preserve some of those key areas. One is a deep-water port and happens to be rail connected. It's one of the last prime sites available, but it is taking a good deal of political effort to do that; it is tough. We are seeing other areas too where we have gone in where we have a huge development where we were creating wet labs for the bio sciences and the condo market is just scheming. They will steamroll it unless we, essentially through public policy, try to maintain those distinctions.

Pete Garra, The BOC Group: It is definitely a problem especially in smaller type manufacturing and industrial applications. We put a plant in, 10 - 20 - 30 acres. The first problem we face is that the local community doesn't want noise; they don't want trucks. It is forcing companies to move further away from the cities themselves, which are not in our markets not where we want to be. The further you go out, the less availability of infrastructure there is. All these good ideas about how do you preserve land for industrial by partnering, that takes time. Right now, there is a need for plants like my own company's. It is becoming more and more difficult to find good viable pieces of land that are available and that welcome this type of investment. The second part of this is in our existing facilities that are long term in nature. They are there; they are operating; they have been fine. The encroachment of commercial and residential is becoming a problem for us, but it should not be the manufacturers' problem. It should be the communities' problem for rezoning. It is a real problem, and I don't know how to deal with that.

Mike Lucoto, Niagara Enterprise: We have loads of industrial space, and no one moving in. So this is not a problem for us.

Rick Little: How do you handle travel expenses? Are they billed back at the business level? Are they part of department budget? Do you have a matrix when you travel, i.e., dollars per transaction, potential savings to the company, that sort of thing?

Pete Garra, BOC: At BOC, we charge it back directly to the operating division. That is a relatively new change to the process. My personal opinion is that I prefer the way we used to have it. It was a budgeted amount. It was in our budget, and it got depleted as we used it. I think that is a better way to do it, because if your user groups are not being charged dollar for dollar for what you are doing they are much more apt to use you and use your services and expertise. Otherwise they will say we will have our local manager take care of that since we don't have to pay you for it. The more you can insulate your travel budget from a direct charge, the better off you are.

Leonard Anderson, Kimberly Clarke: We collect the individual expenses and charge them back to the department. So each department knows what the travel expenses are. But it is also kept centrally; it is electronic, because everyone has a company credit card. The expense reports are all transmitted electronically, prepared electronically; they get authorized electronically; they all go to a central location. They immediately know average cost per person, and so forth. We have a lot of detail information. I don't know what the headcount reduction was, but the whole process is just a fraction of the head count to process the expense report. So, we take it down to the department level, but you need a pretty sophisticated system to do it.

Terry Rees, GE: Our expenses are departmental budget. We used to charge them back but we don't anymore. So we are a free resource for transaction work. We charge for legal work. Legal is part of our department, so we charge a very reasonable hourly charge for the attorneys' time that they spend on the projects. So not only are we a free resource, but we share commissions with our preferred vendors. And any fees or commissions or incentives that we get go directly to the project. It is paid as a credit to the business unit, so there is a lot of incentive for them to utilize us.

Rick Little: When do you choose to travel?

Terry Rees, GE: My travel budget for 2006 is the lowest it has ever been, by about 20%. I`m spending about 10 percent of my annual travel budget to attend this conference. So you could probably figure out from that number approximately what my travel budget for the year is. I expect, come about September, I will have spent it all. I only travel when I absolutely have to, when I have an extremely important project. I'm now the puppeteer when I left the service provider booth and marionettes. I try to orchestrate how they move, and so I don't need to travel as much as I have historically. But on high-profile, important projects I need to be there from time to time. And I'm anticipating that I will have to request additional funds about Sept. or Oct. of this year. Based on past history, if I can justify it, it will probably be approved. But we are being pretty miserly with the travel budget this year.

Jim Martin, Donaldson: We take little different approach, a little more simplified. We are centrally managed. All of our central-office costs, including travel and outside contracts consultants, are put into a basket and allocated back to the business units based on various metrics, either sales, employees or sq ft.. But it is predominately sales. And again, it is a global responsibility. Our growth has been dramatic overseas, so our travel budget has been growing dramatically. And we are managing major capital projects, so we feel we have to go. This is a little bit different view based on Terry's comments. We used to charge back everything: the broker commissions, the architect fees and everything else. The new CFO came in and said he just thought we were spending too much time keeping track of the beans and he would rather do it one quick-and-dirty method once a year.

Rick Little: By a show of hands, how many charge back, corporate end users, charge back to their clients?

Definitely more don't.

Rick Little: How many people have an actual standard for when they travel?

Nobody

Rick Little: How do you appraise surplus property. How do you get a price tag?

Jack Smith, GlaxoSmithKline: We are required to have an evaluation done on any property that is going to be disposed of. This can be an opinion or value, not a real detailed one. Its part of our corporate governance funding requirement, a paper trail.

Unknown respondent: We do the same thing, but we go one step further and contact the local broker and ask that they do a drive-by estimate. A lot of times the MAI will not reflect really what is going on in the area, rather it is a conversion to a residential or commercial; this is a good possibility. It is very hard to just go with a MAI.

Unknown respondent: We will do 3 market analyses by providers, and then we choose the provider, one out of the 3. So essentially we have 3 market analyses done on each property before we dispose of it.

Rick Little: Do you always pick the highest number?

Unknown respondent:

No

At this point, the program was adjourned.